OBD2 Diagnose und Cuore L251

[terios]

Thanks Bluedog.

In the light of the links you shared (not sure I understand all) I've just tried again different variations:

* Bridge between pins 5 and 13 (body earth)
- Only key on, EPS blinking 57
- Engine idling, EPS blinking 57
- Engine charged with accelerator, EPS blinking 57

In all the above cases, Air Bag light is blinking continouesly.
No Check Engine light.

* Bridge between pins 5 and 12 (signal earth)
Check Engine light blinking countinouesly.

* No bridges
No lights.


Any interpretation please?

Oh yes one more thing, when I remove lambda sensor connector, or even the ISC valve, no warning light surges, is it normal?

[bluedog]

As far as I understood it, a continuously blinking Check Engine light signals that the error memory is empty and no error code presently stored.

Concerning your other questions, I don't know the Answer, but with regard to the empty error memory I would say, everything is OK.

There are certain error codes which have to be detected repeatedly before the check engine light (also known as MIL, malfunction indicator light) is switched on. I know that a lambda sensor failure is one of that kind.

Besides, can you explain me, what the term "ISC valve" means?

I seem to have a weak moment in doing guesswork and I could not find the abbreviation in my dictionnaray. Is it that part, which regulates the Idle rpm? But what exactly then would be the full write for that abbreviation?

[terios]

ISCV = Idle Speed Control Valve, electovalve connected to the throttle body to regulate idle rpm. You are right.

My questions are:

- removing sensors like Lambda and ISCV connector without having any MIL code error, is that the case for your Cuore?

- what is the EPS 57 code?

Looking forward your support jointly with Bluedog.

[bluedog]

Zitat von terios

- removing sensors like Lambda and ISCV connector without having any MIL code error, is that the case for your Cuore?

Mine doesn't exist anymore due to a rather extraordinary engine failure. For almost 2 years since, I'm on the road by a Citroen C1... so I don't have the possibility to go to my car and try out.

But, concerning the lambda sensor, I can tell you, that it normally takes a good time (some, maybe even some dozens of km to drive) until you get the MIL for its defect. I never disconnected it just to test the diagnostic system, but I used to drive the Car with various mixtures of Ethanol fuel, up to 85% ethanol, which tended to result in a lean mixture sooner or later, so the EFI would suspect a defectuous lambda sensor and activate the MIL. But, this never took place instantly. It took, depending on the fuel-ethanol-mix and on how full the Tank was, some km to happen. I don't remember exactly, but it was I'd say 20km at least until the MIL appeared.

Once, I had also a defect lambda sensor. At first, when I deleted the error code, it took months to reapear, and that time shortened more and more, until the defect became indeniable. So: The surveillance of that sensor is error-tolerant. The error must be recognized repeatedly before the MIL is activated.

Zitat von terios

- what is the EPS 57 code?

I spent last night maybe an hour or more, trying to find out. I could not. But, I don't have the official manual with the error code list.

But: Since this is not the MIL, it doesn't concern the EFI. EPS stands for "electric power steering". So, if the power Steering works correctly (if present at all!) and the light is off in normal operation mode, who cares?

Its an electric power steering. Either it works as it should or it doesn't. One doesn't need a Warning light to distinguish. I experienced myself what it feels like, when the power steering fails. This was due to a very weak, in fact dead battery (had a short circuit in one of its cells, as I found out soon after). You really need a lot of force to turn the wheel then. Much more than in the same car without power steering. Of course, the EPS light then turned on.

[terios]

Very instructive answers, as usual and always!

My concern with EPS blinking is not about the functionning of the power steering, but a probably ignition timing issue.

As you can see on the label picture, it is said, or so I understand it, that if you bridge pins 8 and 13 you should get the Ignition Timing. So, EPS blinking 57 should have something to do with that?

The one with Bosch device connected to my DLC read fluctuation result 9-20. This is too much different from the specified value 5+/-2 °BTDC/rpm.

This is my concern.

[bluedog]

If ignition timing was that much wrong, you could hear and maybe feel that there was something wrong, if at all it would be possible to start the engine without problem.

Next Question to answer would be: Why should of all things it be the EPS light, which blinks? EPS has nothing to do with the engine at all, neither ignition nor any other part of the engine. Why not let just nothing blink at all or why not let all the lights blink? Why exactly and only let the EPS light blink when prepared to check ignition timing? EPS has as much to do with the engine as the headlights or the wipers or any other electrical component on the car besides ignition and alternator.

So, what sort of logics should it make probable to choose the EPS light out of all things, to indicate ignition timing problems?

Further point: I believe it was in the other topic, where you posted the results of an exhaust gas test. Besides the rpm approximately ohne third to low, that values seem normal to me. Especially you do not have to much Carbon monoxide (CO), what could be a clue to a bad air mixture or an incomplete combustion. And, still unprooven but neither proved false up to now, I gave you a much less harmful explanation for the misterious 650rpm issue.

And, last but not least, you did not mention that the engine has any problems, i.e. that it would make odd noises or not run smootly or anything else.

If the MIL doesn't blink out any error codes and the engine runs normal, and the exhaust gas composition looks normal and plausible, and the EPS (of which we do not even know if it is present) is not obviously failing (one would surely remark that, believe me), how do you come to the seemingly absolute conviction, that there must be something wrong without any doubt?

Couldn't it be the case that you are only not sure if there is everything ok with the car and you don't trust your own perception?

So, how do you come to the conviction, that there absolutely must be something wrong with that car? Any symthoms that we do not know yet?

[bluedog]

ps: The only thing I could probably imagine that could cause such a mistiming, would be if the timing belt would be mounted incorrectly, that means, it would have been misplaced by the distance of one or two of its teeth.

That, however, would lead to a huge lack of power and probably a MIL activated and in possible difficulties when starting the Engine. And it should result in a bad exhaust gas composition.

None of all that was reported by you.

[Rokko]

OK, it's EPS error code 57 and not DTC 57.
Meaning of this code see attached, obviously harmless.

[terios]

Thanks a lot Rokko for the link, that explain definetely the meaning of EPS 57. In fact, as you said, it is not harmful at all, just a protection of the steering motor and computer from overheating by reducing the current...


Bluedog, in order to not diturb this thread please let's continue on my all first topic about the noisy engine. There I will answer your questions... soon.

[Cuore in Town]

kann mir jemand ein kompatiblen bluetooth adapter für den l251 empfehlen?
blick da mit dem chnia fakes und so nicht durch